*** HARMONIA has joined 710.35.155.17 <HARMONIA> Buongiorno, sorry I missed you. <HARMONIA> I'll happily get back to you as soon as I'm done with whatever business I'm on. <HARMONIA> Please leave a message.
[He doesn't want to hurt her, not really. In his bitterest moments, he wants to lash out, but even then it's not because of her. It's because he hates what the Fog does to people. He hates watching her take people under her wing bit by bit simply because it's the best of a series of horrible options. He hates it because, among other things, there's not a damn thing he can do to stop it.]
[All he can do is resist, and watch the dominoes fall.]
[Exhaling quietly, he nods, not at anything in particular. Just to stay moving.]
What I understood from our previous conversation was that many people who follow the Fog are doing so not because they agree with her but because they feel it's necessary for survival and for protecting those they care about. I assumed that applied to you as well, when I saw you here. Was that wrong?
Well...yeah, I guess it does apply. But there's a lot more to it than that.
[Maya lifts her hand to her chin in thought.]
I guess... I remember you saying that following her blindly isn't the solution. And you're right— I believe that. I don't want to blindly follow the Fog, or change more of who I am to make her happy.
I want to understand why she's doing this, what she's really capable of— and see if that can't help us change things. For the people who can go home and for the ones that can't.
[It's . . . not awful in theory. The practice, though, has him frowning, though more with concern than anger this time.]
Putting aside the fact that she seems to have made her motivations fairly clear recently — don't you think that giving her your allegiance gives her more power and makes the problem greater? I don't have an inherent issue with the idea of infiltrating from within [fucking obviously], but not if you're putting bullets in the gun you're trying to dismantle.
[Maya seems to shrink a little; she doesn't have as many smart words for the feelings she has, but she knows Giorno deserves answers. He's shown her so much respect. She wants to have earned it, to keep it.]
I know. But maybe— maybe if someone gets close, understands... We can get her to use her power for good. She doesn't get how much it hurts— she's not a person. And that's why— why it doesn't hurt for some of us.
[Since some of the monsters were never People, either.]
So I want to know everything about her, and then... maybe we can find a way things can change.
. . . Do you really believe she doesn't understand?
[That's what he's stuck on, at this point. The idea's not a bad one. He just can't wrap his mind around this.]
She's not a person, no. But she knows what human suffering is. She's punishing humanity using monsters, so I'd think she's well aware. She experienced emotional pain at the death of her loved ones. She feels it now. It feels like letting her off the hook to say that the reason she doesn't change things for the better is because she doesn't understand.
[He presses his lips together for a moment, then sighs.]
You're not the first person I've heard this line of logic from. It just doesn't add up to me. She can't both feel her own suffering so intensely that she needs to lash out and not understand what dozens if not hundreds of monsters have told her: that she's causing them pain. Either neither is true, or both are. Otherwise, all I can hear is people making excuses for a coward's bad behavior. Is there a piece I'm missing?
[Maya closes her eyes as she lets what he has to say wash over her, taking it in despite the way it stings— though it doesn't sting because she thinks GIorno's wrong in any way. They're reasonable questions, and some of them are questions that she's had before.]
I don't... need to make excuses for her. She's not on trial.
I'm not asking you to believe in her, or to trust her, or to think that anyone else should.
But I've been working at this— trying to understand the rules of this world for years, and they're different. Things that were impossible, truths that contradicted in my world— don't, here, or in others. So maybe, because of that, there's a possibility where she's just so mad... she can't see anything but her anger.
You don't have to trust the fog god— or... me, I guess.
[Maya starts to toy with the shell pendant on the necklace she's wearing.]
. . . With all due respect, Maya, she is and will remain on trial until she releases the people I am responsible for from this place and the forms she's trapped them in.
[His voice is still calm. If anything, calmer, not in the cold of his anger but in resolution.]
If you choose to engage me in conversation on this subject, you're stepping into a courtroom by default. I understand that that isn't how many, if not most, people here consider the issue of the Fog God, and I can respect that. I can and do trust you to do what you believe is right, which it sounds like you are doing, whether or not I personally think it's a safe plan and whether or not I'm concerned for you. I underestimated the complexity of the situation, and I'm sorry for that.
But if you want me to ask you questions on this subject honestly and in good faith, she is going to be on trial. It's her fault that I'm here, but to be frank with you that's not the problem. There are people who are, in one way or another, my responsibility, and she is causing them pain. You told me all I can do is be there for the people who matter to me. This is how I do that. There is no forgiveness. She's guilty until I get proof that all of this was some terrible misunderstanding. Because she's messed with my people. No one gets away with that. Not even a god, and certainly not on such flimsy reasoning as a claim of not understanding.
If these questions are uncomfortable for you, then perhaps we shouldn't talk about this anymore. If you're fine with continuing, please respect that it's not a conversation that I'm able to have without her culpability as part of the picture.
[Maya comments, finally, taking a breath after Giorno speaks. At conversing, at out-talking someone... But Maya's good at using her own brand of levity to buy herself time.
And she does— she thinks about what he's said, bringing her hand to her chin and tapping it and closing her eyes.]
Okay.
I don't think I need to convince you.
Even if it's uncomfortable, sometimes the truth is worth pursuing! But if you can trust me to do my best, even if you don't agree with my methods, then, wouldn't I kind of be the jerk if I didn't do the same to you?
[Maya nods, having decided already.]
You talk so well because you're a leader, right? So this is you... leading. Like I said! I don't need you to trust her.
[He stiffens slightly at first. Maya doesn't say things the way he interprets that statement, cutting and sarcastic, but it's a possibility that catches him all the same. He reads tone into words before he can stop himself, readying himself for a possible battle that doesn't come.]
[She meant it. . . . Strange.]
. . . I'm making up for lost time.
[It sounds like a joke. Dry as dust. Even as he watches her, thoughtful and watchful. Does he trust this? There's no reason not to. Maya doesn't deceive. Not in such a direct way, at least.]
Trust isn't always reciprocal, unfortunately. But I appreciate your willingness to give it.
[He glances over at the shrine, frown lingering on his lips, looking troubled.]
What kinds of contradictory truths did you mean? The ones that don't match up.
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no subject
[All he can do is resist, and watch the dominoes fall.]
[Exhaling quietly, he nods, not at anything in particular. Just to stay moving.]
What I understood from our previous conversation was that many people who follow the Fog are doing so not because they agree with her but because they feel it's necessary for survival and for protecting those they care about. I assumed that applied to you as well, when I saw you here. Was that wrong?
no subject
[Maya lifts her hand to her chin in thought.]
I guess... I remember you saying that following her blindly isn't the solution. And you're right— I believe that. I don't want to blindly follow the Fog, or change more of who I am to make her happy.
I want to understand why she's doing this, what she's really capable of— and see if that can't help us change things. For the people who can go home and for the ones that can't.
no subject
[It's . . . not awful in theory. The practice, though, has him frowning, though more with concern than anger this time.]
Putting aside the fact that she seems to have made her motivations fairly clear recently — don't you think that giving her your allegiance gives her more power and makes the problem greater? I don't have an inherent issue with the idea of infiltrating from within [fucking obviously], but not if you're putting bullets in the gun you're trying to dismantle.
no subject
I know. But maybe— maybe if someone gets close, understands... We can get her to use her power for good. She doesn't get how much it hurts— she's not a person. And that's why— why it doesn't hurt for some of us.
[Since some of the monsters were never People, either.]
So I want to know everything about her, and then... maybe we can find a way things can change.
no subject
[That's what he's stuck on, at this point. The idea's not a bad one. He just can't wrap his mind around this.]
She's not a person, no. But she knows what human suffering is. She's punishing humanity using monsters, so I'd think she's well aware. She experienced emotional pain at the death of her loved ones. She feels it now. It feels like letting her off the hook to say that the reason she doesn't change things for the better is because she doesn't understand.
[He presses his lips together for a moment, then sighs.]
You're not the first person I've heard this line of logic from. It just doesn't add up to me. She can't both feel her own suffering so intensely that she needs to lash out and not understand what dozens if not hundreds of monsters have told her: that she's causing them pain. Either neither is true, or both are. Otherwise, all I can hear is people making excuses for a coward's bad behavior. Is there a piece I'm missing?
no subject
I don't... need to make excuses for her. She's not on trial.
I'm not asking you to believe in her, or to trust her, or to think that anyone else should.
But I've been working at this— trying to understand the rules of this world for years, and they're different. Things that were impossible, truths that contradicted in my world— don't, here, or in others. So maybe, because of that, there's a possibility where she's just so mad... she can't see anything but her anger.
You don't have to trust the fog god— or... me, I guess.
[Maya starts to toy with the shell pendant on the necklace she's wearing.]
I just— really want you to.
no subject
[His voice is still calm. If anything, calmer, not in the cold of his anger but in resolution.]
If you choose to engage me in conversation on this subject, you're stepping into a courtroom by default. I understand that that isn't how many, if not most, people here consider the issue of the Fog God, and I can respect that. I can and do trust you to do what you believe is right, which it sounds like you are doing, whether or not I personally think it's a safe plan and whether or not I'm concerned for you. I underestimated the complexity of the situation, and I'm sorry for that.
But if you want me to ask you questions on this subject honestly and in good faith, she is going to be on trial. It's her fault that I'm here, but to be frank with you that's not the problem. There are people who are, in one way or another, my responsibility, and she is causing them pain. You told me all I can do is be there for the people who matter to me. This is how I do that. There is no forgiveness. She's guilty until I get proof that all of this was some terrible misunderstanding. Because she's messed with my people. No one gets away with that. Not even a god, and certainly not on such flimsy reasoning as a claim of not understanding.
If these questions are uncomfortable for you, then perhaps we shouldn't talk about this anymore. If you're fine with continuing, please respect that it's not a conversation that I'm able to have without her culpability as part of the picture.
no subject
[Maya comments, finally, taking a breath after Giorno speaks. At conversing, at out-talking someone... But Maya's good at using her own brand of levity to buy herself time.
And she does— she thinks about what he's said, bringing her hand to her chin and tapping it and closing her eyes.]
Okay.
I don't think I need to convince you.
Even if it's uncomfortable, sometimes the truth is worth pursuing! But if you can trust me to do my best, even if you don't agree with my methods, then, wouldn't I kind of be the jerk if I didn't do the same to you?
[Maya nods, having decided already.]
You talk so well because you're a leader, right? So this is you... leading. Like I said! I don't need you to trust her.
So, I'm gonna trust you too.
no subject
[She meant it. . . . Strange.]
. . . I'm making up for lost time.
[It sounds like a joke. Dry as dust. Even as he watches her, thoughtful and watchful. Does he trust this? There's no reason not to. Maya doesn't deceive. Not in such a direct way, at least.]
Trust isn't always reciprocal, unfortunately. But I appreciate your willingness to give it.
[He glances over at the shrine, frown lingering on his lips, looking troubled.]
What kinds of contradictory truths did you mean? The ones that don't match up.